A very brave post. When you lose a lot of weight, you are never skinny. You are ex-fat. You carry the trauma from the isolation, the bullying, the horrible comments and the self-hatred inside you. It's a lot of hard work to heal. Thank you for sharing your story.
this comment truly stuck with me... i've been thinking about it for days. "when you lose a lot of weight, you are never skinny. you are ex-fat". yes. yes. yes. thank you for putting into words, and thank you for reading as well
What you’re describing is just internalized fatphobia, which I empathize with a ton. But as someone who is still and will always be fat, skinny people who lost weight still ARE skinny, and hearing this kind of rhetoric from former fat people sucks. To your point about all of that trauma being hard to heal, I resonate with that, but this is why everyone should strive to heal their own fatphobia BEFORE losing weight, because clearly there are a lot of people like you who struggle with it even when they’re thinner, and it goes to show that losing weight is not a cure for fatphobia. If women everywhere attempted to undo their fatphobic thinking and trauma before undergoing a weight loss journey, we’d see a lot less women going through with it in the first place because they would love themselves. Again, I understand that it’s hard.
The last few years have been so disheartening. Being a child during the early 2000s “nothing tastes as good as skinny feels” era and a teen during the skinny grunge tumblr era was so hard. And it felt like such a breath of fresh air to get to the body positivity era. Like finally society has figured it out! These past few years have been so disappointing watching “thin” come back in style, and realizing the societal shift wasn’t permanent.
Also, I love how celebrities all keep denying they’ve taken Ozempic even though they’re all suddenly losing so much drastic weight at the exact same time and as soon as Ozempic is a thing
It is so infuriating that they deny it. Just like celebrities who deny that they’ve had plastic surgery. You are made to feel ugly, less than, incapable, unfortunate.
this is such an important discussion and you’ve done it in such a candid and comprehensive way, love it. So lovely hear you felt inspired by my post, and if you’re interested in the K-pop side of it, I actually wrote an article for Dazed a while back called “Wonyoungism- is this K-pop trend repackaging Ed content on TikTok” that might be interesting to you xx
omg, just looked for it and i'll read it asap. i was already kind of out of the 'kpop bubble' when the wonyoungnism trend started, and i always wanted to know more about it. the title is already promising so i'm excited to read it !!
This was such a great post to read! I absolutely agree with what you've observed, and your insight into the influence of K-pop really made sense to me!
I've also noticed is that the return of thinness as the ultimate beauty standard and the decline of the popularity of the body positivity movement have coexisted with a rise in fascist political views. I think the population is easier to control when they try to fit a very specific beauty standard, and I think it's something that upholds oppressive systems. It encourages conformity rather than celebrating diversity. This might sound a bit crazy but I can't help but see a connection 😅
As a thin woman, I understand not everyone should be, and I'm disgusted that these types of beauty standards are being pushed again. I think the best ways to resist this is to continue promoting and engaging with body positive content, block out all the noise so it doesn't show up in our algorithms, and continue to live our lives how we want to. And of course making posts highlighting these issues like you've done! 💖
I absolutely agree about the thinness : fascism correlation. A wonderful book I have been reading "Women living deliciously" by Florence Given speaks to this, although framed more like ~ when our attention is diverted to fixing our bodies and partaking in consumerism, we have less energy for what's really important (fighting for equality etc). I think this is absolutely fascinating... and if you think about it, dieting, staving, obsessing over weight loss... really just diverts all our energy and saps it. I'd recommend reading this book to anyone ❤️🙏
Wow that's so true! Yes, focusing on weight and our bodies really is a distraction from the fight for equality and is so draining to the soil...I will definitely have to check out that book! 💖
Ozempic man. The last podcast I listened to was Huberman Labs (date 12/18/23) on how sugar affects you. Towards the end (timestamp 2:45:00) they talk about Ozempic and how it works by decimating your will to eat, therefore your will to live. This shit is so disheartening. If it hasn’t killed anyone yet it probably will soon. Thank you for sharing this
I’ve read a few conspiracies on the push for Ozempic and this just makes them all the more believable. Anyway, the two people I know on Ozempic basically never eat. Just very small amounts, no appetite, and they look sickly.
this is such an important post. the increase in fat phobia that i’ve seen online is so abhorrent and it’s good to see people talking about it. thank you for this!
Man who likes bigger women here. I'm always sorry to hear about the trauma and anxiety girls and women go through in this area. Unfortunately many men are subject to the same social/style pressures about *women's* bodies, and even guys who are attracted to fuller figures sometimes can't be honest about it, meaning that the women don't get the affirmation they should. Not to say that any man's attention should be determinative of a woman's self-worth, just that a good partner is happy to say and show how much they like you.
I completely agree with your points about the inequalities associated with Ozempic and other weight loss drugs, and how they've led to a new era of "weight loss culture." I just published a couple posts about GLP-1 drugs and was wondering - would it be alright if I provide a link to your post in it? I think you cover a lot of good points about the harms of weight loss drugs and society's obsession with appearances, and would want my future readers to be aware of them as well.
thank you for taking me into consideration and thank you for reading! you can definitely provide a link to my post :)) i look forward to reading your work as well
These drugs are very helpful for people who need to lose weight. I don’t give a shit about TikTok or IG or celebrity culture. I do care that my health is restored by this kind of medication. I’m not trying to fit an aesthetic. I’m trying to live. And now all my health metrics are either perfect or much improved. I’m 59. You will learn as you age that shit catches up with you after a certain point. I was fat but with very good health metrics — until I got a little older and things like blood sugar and blood pressure and such began to creep up. I don’t know why so many people want to shit on a very helpful drug that for many of us has given us our life back.
It is an important drug for those who need to lose weight due to health issues! But not every overweight/obese person is unhealthy. What we are seeing is the majority of people (especially celebrities) using this for aesthetic purposes, some of which who are already at a normal/healthy weight perpetuating the idea of idolizing thinness without considering the influence they have and the message this sends.
I don’t think celebrities are the majority at all. I see ordinary people using it who had been desperately fighting to lose excess weight for most of their lives, nor feeling great relief that their bodies are healthier. I see people who aren’t seeking to be thin — just thinner and healthier.
I feel like losing 60 pounds was a miracle for me.
Such a great post. I wrote a deep dive about The Substance recently and how it connects to body horror - such an incredible movie. I anticipate an Ozempic-adjacent dystopian film is coming…
thank you for reading! your deep dive sounds interesting, i just saved it to read it later :). and yes, i agree. considering how fast they were making pandemic-inspired movies back in 2020, i don't think it will take too long 💀
Get off Instagram! And TikTok! I'm not on any social media except YouTube and Substack, and I don't feel pressured to be any thinner than I am naturally.
I can’t speak to all of the weight loss drugs, just Mounjaro. I think you should try it. Before you scream at me, let me explain.
I have food issues and a very warped relationship with food. Mounjaro shut up my food gremlin. You probably have this gremlin in your brain too—it talks to you about food, what would taste good, how you should get something to eat right now. It’s pretty much constant.
With my food gremlin gone, I’m slowly starting to think about having a normal relationship with food. There are people who don’t have food gremlins sitting in their heads telling them to eat all the time and for them, maintaining a healthy weight is easy.
This damage didn’t happen overnight and the correction is going to take years, but without the food gremlin, I’m so much happier.
I have the food gremlin too and I'm about 4 weeks into using Mounjaro. The silence in my head and the lack of hunger pangs is such a contrast that I almost don't know what to do with myself. It's changing my life. I have all this extra time and brain space that used to be literally taken up with constant thoughts about food.
Meanwhile, in the world of men, the cover models of Men's Health magazine for the past 20 years have all been ripped hunks from the 0.5% genetic elite who also take steroids and diuretics to achieve a look that's impossible naturally. Most men couldn't care less.
If you ladies learned not to give a shit about celebrities, influencers, buzzwords and magazines, you'd be a lot happier and wouldn't need cope bullshit like 'body positivity'. Women of the past had this thing called self-esteem because they didn't wallow in negative dross all day.
That's actually not true. The guys who buy mens health mag, full of workouts and lean protein recipes, are borderline Eating disorders. Im getting injured and old and can't keep up the workout regimen I had for decades. im incapable of aging gracefully. I should add I was a "fat fuck" until 19; and then lost 65 lbs and became a workout warrior for almost 20 years. Straight men attracted to fitness who also want to be even more fit then our women. Want to be challenged by our woman in a healthy lifestyle but maybe unhealthy mentally and physically.
I been tearing ligaments attempting to do what was my life for such a long time. I can't change what I like and the body I missed. Eating a lot without a 20K step offset isnt an option, because of how much i hated myself.
How often i resorted growing up to fist fights because if u dont shut up the "fat fuck" "fat faggot" taunter 10 others join in, and you can't fight 10.
Such an important conversation to be having. It feels as though the conversation has taken a radical shift down the 'nothing tastes as good as skinny feels' road. The ozempic thing is wild - I found out at the weekend that (at least) two people I know have been taking it. Why? They were totally normal sized women (in fact, less than normal sized, as can't imagine either was bigger than a 10 or 12 UK sized?). Is it better to feel nauseous all the time to be a size 6-8?
Interesting observation about K-pop. I hadn’t considered that. One social theory I read suggests that conservative leadership is positively correlated with the objectification of women. If you examine trends, this feels true. George Bush, low rise jeans and skinny jeans. Obama, high rise pants and mom jeans. Trump 1.0 had a paradoxical effect bc everyone thought it was a fluke. But Trump 2.0 has Gen Z mutilating their faces by getting lip fillers at 20 years old. It’s all insane.
so well said and thanks for sharing your personal experiences within this minefield of a topic. as someone currently doing research into body positivity online movements I find it fascinating and concerning how quickly the internet and trends shift from one thing to another and alll the collateral from these shifts.
thank you so much for reading! :) i find it very interesting that you are doing research on this topic —i don't know what you think about it, but i also feel like it's all related to 'trends'... one of the sentences i scrapped from this piece was that i am tired of waiting for my body to go back in fashion. just like clothes, it seems like beauty standards also kind of go in cycles (in the mid-2010s it was the curvy, bbl, big lips, etc kardashian style, for example) and that influences the online body positive narrative for sure
The fact that bodies can go in and out of fashion at all is always more evidence that your body was never the problem, these systems are designed to make us hate ourselves to buy more shit. And like the Naomi wolf quote you highlight - to make us so fixated on hating and controlling our bodies that we can’t engage with the world to challenge said systems.
Yeah a lot of online culture is so trend based, including in ‘positive’ spaces neutrality is now sort framed alongside positivity to the point where they are pitted against one another, I think to speak c broadly there is so much misinformation and cultural pressure around topics of bodies and also eating that there is a bit of a dearth of helpful/ evidence based info that people can actually digest and learn from easily. Maybe at some point I’ll try sharing about my or others research in more of a short Substack form!
A very brave post. When you lose a lot of weight, you are never skinny. You are ex-fat. You carry the trauma from the isolation, the bullying, the horrible comments and the self-hatred inside you. It's a lot of hard work to heal. Thank you for sharing your story.
this comment truly stuck with me... i've been thinking about it for days. "when you lose a lot of weight, you are never skinny. you are ex-fat". yes. yes. yes. thank you for putting into words, and thank you for reading as well
Yes! And it never goes away, you just learn to love your insecurities if you can get there 🥺
This is so true. At my slimmest, after losing almost 10stone, I still refused to sit on any display furniture in shops for fear I'd break it.
this is so true ugh
What you’re describing is just internalized fatphobia, which I empathize with a ton. But as someone who is still and will always be fat, skinny people who lost weight still ARE skinny, and hearing this kind of rhetoric from former fat people sucks. To your point about all of that trauma being hard to heal, I resonate with that, but this is why everyone should strive to heal their own fatphobia BEFORE losing weight, because clearly there are a lot of people like you who struggle with it even when they’re thinner, and it goes to show that losing weight is not a cure for fatphobia. If women everywhere attempted to undo their fatphobic thinking and trauma before undergoing a weight loss journey, we’d see a lot less women going through with it in the first place because they would love themselves. Again, I understand that it’s hard.
The last few years have been so disheartening. Being a child during the early 2000s “nothing tastes as good as skinny feels” era and a teen during the skinny grunge tumblr era was so hard. And it felt like such a breath of fresh air to get to the body positivity era. Like finally society has figured it out! These past few years have been so disappointing watching “thin” come back in style, and realizing the societal shift wasn’t permanent.
Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels — I had forgotten about this (somehow) despite using it as a mantra for way way way too long.
Unfortunately it’s all for the 💰💰💰💰
Also, I love how celebrities all keep denying they’ve taken Ozempic even though they’re all suddenly losing so much drastic weight at the exact same time and as soon as Ozempic is a thing
It is so infuriating that they deny it. Just like celebrities who deny that they’ve had plastic surgery. You are made to feel ugly, less than, incapable, unfortunate.
Yep!! They think we’re idiots.
this is such an important discussion and you’ve done it in such a candid and comprehensive way, love it. So lovely hear you felt inspired by my post, and if you’re interested in the K-pop side of it, I actually wrote an article for Dazed a while back called “Wonyoungism- is this K-pop trend repackaging Ed content on TikTok” that might be interesting to you xx
omg, just looked for it and i'll read it asap. i was already kind of out of the 'kpop bubble' when the wonyoungnism trend started, and i always wanted to know more about it. the title is already promising so i'm excited to read it !!
This was such a great post to read! I absolutely agree with what you've observed, and your insight into the influence of K-pop really made sense to me!
I've also noticed is that the return of thinness as the ultimate beauty standard and the decline of the popularity of the body positivity movement have coexisted with a rise in fascist political views. I think the population is easier to control when they try to fit a very specific beauty standard, and I think it's something that upholds oppressive systems. It encourages conformity rather than celebrating diversity. This might sound a bit crazy but I can't help but see a connection 😅
As a thin woman, I understand not everyone should be, and I'm disgusted that these types of beauty standards are being pushed again. I think the best ways to resist this is to continue promoting and engaging with body positive content, block out all the noise so it doesn't show up in our algorithms, and continue to live our lives how we want to. And of course making posts highlighting these issues like you've done! 💖
I absolutely agree about the thinness : fascism correlation. A wonderful book I have been reading "Women living deliciously" by Florence Given speaks to this, although framed more like ~ when our attention is diverted to fixing our bodies and partaking in consumerism, we have less energy for what's really important (fighting for equality etc). I think this is absolutely fascinating... and if you think about it, dieting, staving, obsessing over weight loss... really just diverts all our energy and saps it. I'd recommend reading this book to anyone ❤️🙏
Wow that's so true! Yes, focusing on weight and our bodies really is a distraction from the fight for equality and is so draining to the soil...I will definitely have to check out that book! 💖
Absolutely, this discussion here is as on point as the article 💪
Ozempic man. The last podcast I listened to was Huberman Labs (date 12/18/23) on how sugar affects you. Towards the end (timestamp 2:45:00) they talk about Ozempic and how it works by decimating your will to eat, therefore your will to live. This shit is so disheartening. If it hasn’t killed anyone yet it probably will soon. Thank you for sharing this
I’ve read a few conspiracies on the push for Ozempic and this just makes them all the more believable. Anyway, the two people I know on Ozempic basically never eat. Just very small amounts, no appetite, and they look sickly.
this is such an important post. the increase in fat phobia that i’ve seen online is so abhorrent and it’s good to see people talking about it. thank you for this!
i agree with you. it's getting to the point where it's scary. thank you for reading, tho 💖
Man who likes bigger women here. I'm always sorry to hear about the trauma and anxiety girls and women go through in this area. Unfortunately many men are subject to the same social/style pressures about *women's* bodies, and even guys who are attracted to fuller figures sometimes can't be honest about it, meaning that the women don't get the affirmation they should. Not to say that any man's attention should be determinative of a woman's self-worth, just that a good partner is happy to say and show how much they like you.
Be happy with yourself and don't settle for less.
I completely agree with your points about the inequalities associated with Ozempic and other weight loss drugs, and how they've led to a new era of "weight loss culture." I just published a couple posts about GLP-1 drugs and was wondering - would it be alright if I provide a link to your post in it? I think you cover a lot of good points about the harms of weight loss drugs and society's obsession with appearances, and would want my future readers to be aware of them as well.
thank you for taking me into consideration and thank you for reading! you can definitely provide a link to my post :)) i look forward to reading your work as well
linked. thank you!
These drugs are very helpful for people who need to lose weight. I don’t give a shit about TikTok or IG or celebrity culture. I do care that my health is restored by this kind of medication. I’m not trying to fit an aesthetic. I’m trying to live. And now all my health metrics are either perfect or much improved. I’m 59. You will learn as you age that shit catches up with you after a certain point. I was fat but with very good health metrics — until I got a little older and things like blood sugar and blood pressure and such began to creep up. I don’t know why so many people want to shit on a very helpful drug that for many of us has given us our life back.
It is an important drug for those who need to lose weight due to health issues! But not every overweight/obese person is unhealthy. What we are seeing is the majority of people (especially celebrities) using this for aesthetic purposes, some of which who are already at a normal/healthy weight perpetuating the idea of idolizing thinness without considering the influence they have and the message this sends.
I don’t think celebrities are the majority at all. I see ordinary people using it who had been desperately fighting to lose excess weight for most of their lives, nor feeling great relief that their bodies are healthier. I see people who aren’t seeking to be thin — just thinner and healthier.
I feel like losing 60 pounds was a miracle for me.
Such a great post. I wrote a deep dive about The Substance recently and how it connects to body horror - such an incredible movie. I anticipate an Ozempic-adjacent dystopian film is coming…
thank you for reading! your deep dive sounds interesting, i just saved it to read it later :). and yes, i agree. considering how fast they were making pandemic-inspired movies back in 2020, i don't think it will take too long 💀
Get off Instagram! And TikTok! I'm not on any social media except YouTube and Substack, and I don't feel pressured to be any thinner than I am naturally.
(And Pinterest!)
I can’t speak to all of the weight loss drugs, just Mounjaro. I think you should try it. Before you scream at me, let me explain.
I have food issues and a very warped relationship with food. Mounjaro shut up my food gremlin. You probably have this gremlin in your brain too—it talks to you about food, what would taste good, how you should get something to eat right now. It’s pretty much constant.
With my food gremlin gone, I’m slowly starting to think about having a normal relationship with food. There are people who don’t have food gremlins sitting in their heads telling them to eat all the time and for them, maintaining a healthy weight is easy.
This damage didn’t happen overnight and the correction is going to take years, but without the food gremlin, I’m so much happier.
I have the food gremlin too and I'm about 4 weeks into using Mounjaro. The silence in my head and the lack of hunger pangs is such a contrast that I almost don't know what to do with myself. It's changing my life. I have all this extra time and brain space that used to be literally taken up with constant thoughts about food.
Meanwhile, in the world of men, the cover models of Men's Health magazine for the past 20 years have all been ripped hunks from the 0.5% genetic elite who also take steroids and diuretics to achieve a look that's impossible naturally. Most men couldn't care less.
If you ladies learned not to give a shit about celebrities, influencers, buzzwords and magazines, you'd be a lot happier and wouldn't need cope bullshit like 'body positivity'. Women of the past had this thing called self-esteem because they didn't wallow in negative dross all day.
This comment doesn’t pass the vibe check.
Maybe if you spent less time vibing and focused more on reality, you wouldn't be leading the way in SSRI use and alcoholism. Get a fucking grip.
Poor little hostile troll. Surely there is a better use of your time?
Wow, friend. Another gross response.
That's actually not true. The guys who buy mens health mag, full of workouts and lean protein recipes, are borderline Eating disorders. Im getting injured and old and can't keep up the workout regimen I had for decades. im incapable of aging gracefully. I should add I was a "fat fuck" until 19; and then lost 65 lbs and became a workout warrior for almost 20 years. Straight men attracted to fitness who also want to be even more fit then our women. Want to be challenged by our woman in a healthy lifestyle but maybe unhealthy mentally and physically.
I been tearing ligaments attempting to do what was my life for such a long time. I can't change what I like and the body I missed. Eating a lot without a 20K step offset isnt an option, because of how much i hated myself.
How often i resorted growing up to fist fights because if u dont shut up the "fat fuck" "fat faggot" taunter 10 others join in, and you can't fight 10.
Such an important conversation to be having. It feels as though the conversation has taken a radical shift down the 'nothing tastes as good as skinny feels' road. The ozempic thing is wild - I found out at the weekend that (at least) two people I know have been taking it. Why? They were totally normal sized women (in fact, less than normal sized, as can't imagine either was bigger than a 10 or 12 UK sized?). Is it better to feel nauseous all the time to be a size 6-8?
Interesting observation about K-pop. I hadn’t considered that. One social theory I read suggests that conservative leadership is positively correlated with the objectification of women. If you examine trends, this feels true. George Bush, low rise jeans and skinny jeans. Obama, high rise pants and mom jeans. Trump 1.0 had a paradoxical effect bc everyone thought it was a fluke. But Trump 2.0 has Gen Z mutilating their faces by getting lip fillers at 20 years old. It’s all insane.
so well said and thanks for sharing your personal experiences within this minefield of a topic. as someone currently doing research into body positivity online movements I find it fascinating and concerning how quickly the internet and trends shift from one thing to another and alll the collateral from these shifts.
thank you so much for reading! :) i find it very interesting that you are doing research on this topic —i don't know what you think about it, but i also feel like it's all related to 'trends'... one of the sentences i scrapped from this piece was that i am tired of waiting for my body to go back in fashion. just like clothes, it seems like beauty standards also kind of go in cycles (in the mid-2010s it was the curvy, bbl, big lips, etc kardashian style, for example) and that influences the online body positive narrative for sure
The fact that bodies can go in and out of fashion at all is always more evidence that your body was never the problem, these systems are designed to make us hate ourselves to buy more shit. And like the Naomi wolf quote you highlight - to make us so fixated on hating and controlling our bodies that we can’t engage with the world to challenge said systems.
Yeah a lot of online culture is so trend based, including in ‘positive’ spaces neutrality is now sort framed alongside positivity to the point where they are pitted against one another, I think to speak c broadly there is so much misinformation and cultural pressure around topics of bodies and also eating that there is a bit of a dearth of helpful/ evidence based info that people can actually digest and learn from easily. Maybe at some point I’ll try sharing about my or others research in more of a short Substack form!